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soraya
10-04-2004, 11:59 PM
This might be a spin-off of the previous thread.

About glycogen, i am not backwards and i am unable and have no time to post everything relevant on this thread. My suggestions to caroline were only general guidelines, those which are stated in the media and general advice. Anything individual cannot be give on this forum, face-to-face consultation and lactate and other tests as well as a careful case history is necessary. I also assumed Caroline is not a bike racer.

Coming back to restoring glycogen reserves, first of all rehydration is important, i am very thirsty after exercise and this is natural. Instinctively i do eat food with high GI but not much of it, and also a high intake of kiwis, oranges or mushrooms. Not much. I do eat potatoes but not much. Also i drink something with complex carbohydrates. But this is individual.

You said the personal coach make them eat.......i was only instinctive.

The lactate treshhold is individual but i only gave a hint, a very rough hint. My treshold is about 150 which i can reach when training Chen 56 or cannon fist, lo han qi gong.

soraya
10-05-2004, 12:48 AM
I must aplogize for posting so much but i needed to clarify many things. I am NOT talking about Atkins and manyother diets although some are advocating or successfull with it. When talking about protein i talk about fish, chicken breast, turkey breast, cottage cheese etc. Talking about carbos i am talking about fruit, vegies etc. Japanese people eat lots of rice but also lots of tofu and vegies. Apart from all genetically they tend to be more lean

I do apply scientific studies but must emphasize again that the individual patient is not a subject in a clinical trial. When studies state about protein and uric acid i do take it seriously into account but would go deeper into history and tests

I practice near Glebe, Sydney, a suburb with 2 unis and a virtual campus of health freaks. Everwhere you see naturopathy practices one health and organic shop next to the other and a general tendency of highly, somtimes pseudo-intellectuals who exaggerate with their fitness For these people these diets do work for a life time.

Social eating? NOthing wrong with that. Eating chocolate? I do love them and one just should not eat them as a replacement for boredom

soraya
10-05-2004, 02:04 AM
Sorry but i really felt openly difuted by Bill so i need to clarify a few things due to the fact that this is a public bulletin.

3 ways how professionals measure body fat:
skin-fold caliper - least accurate but could serve as a hint
bio electrical impedance - the method i use and more accurate, easy and less embarassing
hydrostatic weighing - method used in research, most expensive and accurate

The best which works for us all: The mirror and your spouse(let him/her grab your fat), your degree of vanity, your clothes, if you have to buy bigger clothes all the time something is wrong,

My only reason was to help Caroline and not to start a scientific discussion but it can't be handled on the forum. Sorry Bill!

stanton
10-05-2004, 07:13 AM
soraya,

I should have been more clear. My definitiion of 'social eating' goes beyond eating in a social context. It is basically eating just for eating sake, and /or when experiencing psychological termoil (angst?) and using eating to solve? the afflicting condition.

BillT
10-05-2004, 09:28 AM
Soraya- I certainly mean no offense to you or your expertise. I think there is considerable concensus that a diet very rich in fruits and vegetables, with protein from lean sources, and minimal saturated fats is desirable. Dark chocolate is known to be good for antioxidant content. I support including "junk" foods in moderation in any diet, although it turns out to be easy to misjudge (usually underestimate) caloric content of foods. One dish of ice cream, depending on the type, can be the nutritional equivalent to an entire meal without the fiber or micronutrients (and lots of trans- and saturated fats).

Recently I've become more interested in Renal Acid Load, as my medical condition closely resembles Distal Renal Tubular Acidosis, in which the kidneys strip calcium from the bones to buffer an incorrectly interpreted metabolic acidosis. The typical American diet, high in meat, cheese, bread and cola is an acidotic mess of uncertain, but likely bad, health implications. I've always eaten a massive amount of vegetables, which should buffer the acidotic effects of a 100 gram/day protein diet. At the bottom line, nobody really knows what health implications renal acid load has, although for people like me with specific conditions it is clearly bad.

Here are a couple of links people interested in nutrition may find interesting: http://www.diabetes.org/weightloss-and-exercise.jsp , from the American Diabetes Association; and www.usda.gov , from the US Department of Agriculture. The whole URL won't fit, so in the USDA site, hit the "Food and Nutrition" links to get into a new and much improved guide to diet, exercise, and health.

My own actual nutritional training comes from working in two Eating Disorders programs at Penn State University (Hershey Medical Center) starting with with Dr. T.-Ling Tan, and later others from 1982-1999.

An interesting topic relevant to Tai Chi is the timing of eating with workouts. I agree that many smaller meals is preferable to "Three Square Meals".

Bill

soraya
10-05-2004, 01:35 PM
Bill

I do know that you wouldn't offend deliberately so i just would like to clarify. Interesting, your experience with eating disorders. Didnt you tell me that you were a psychotherapist? I am sorry for your medical condition so its good that you are so medically inclined.

Stanton
Yes, i thinnk what you describe is quite common in the overweight people who eat for eating sake. So people who would like to lose weight need to ask themselves why they eat: boredom, frustration, angst, loneliness....etc....etc. I like to eat and might have eaten too much, living downtown Sydney where the sight and smell of food welcomes you 24 hours of the day.

So i decided to roller blade past the food to go to work or somewhere else. Therefore i suggested Caroline to roller blade or bike past good food, so she has her exercise and physically unable to handle food

I have never been overweight, my highest BMI was 24 and now is only 20. I was just vain and wanted to wear my old clothes again, have a belly-free top, piercing and taken for my daughter's sister and my husbands daughter, he's 15 years younger than i am. As a side effect my bp dropped down.

BillT
10-05-2004, 06:01 PM
Soraya-

Indeed, I am primarily a psychotherapist. My undergraduate degree is in Biological Psychology, with a heavy emphasis on Neuroanatomy, Neurophysiology, and research methodology. I declined an offer of a fellowship where I would be building mathematical models of the visual system to follow my wife (now, 26 years later, a Child and Adolescent Psychiatrist). She did her Adult Residency at UNC-Chapel Hill; Clinical Social Work was the most intriguing of the programs they offered (that I had the grades to get into!), so I got my Masters in that field. I'm trained in individual, group, and family treatment models, as well as Mental Health Law, social research methodology, and Psychopathology. Eating Disorders are treated here by a multi-disciplinary team approach, including a Psychiatrist or Developmental Pediatrician, Clinical Nutritionist, and a therapist, either Psychologist or Clinical Social Worker. In this capacity I've treated many cases of Anorexia Nervosa, Bulemia Nervosa, Obesity, Pica, even a couple of cases of PANDAS masquerading as anorexia. I'm very biologically inclined, and have attended closely to all aspects of the team approach. Currently my practice is primarily with a Dual Diagnosis (mental health and substance abuse) population, but in the context of a teaching hospital where renal failure, hepatic problems, CHF, infectious diseases and the like are common complications. I also see a fair number of people with catastrophic self-inflicted injuries (s/p shotgun discharge in the mouth, for example).

This doesn't qualify me to be a Nutritionist, but between that and my own sports training and attention to my illness, I think I have something to offer; otherwise, I wouldn't say anything. When I DON'T post, it's usually because my input would add nothing.

Tai Chi is a means to wellness to some extent for everyone on this forum. Nutrition can also be a means to wellness.

Please don't take my inadvertent disrespect as reason to not continue to add your own knowledge and experience to the forum; I very much admire your contibution.

Bill

carolinew
10-06-2004, 11:14 AM
We eat and drink because they are a necessity for life.

Within this necessity for eating, we all have reasons for eaing or not eating, from things like general good health, to weight loss and the one I do, comfort eating.

What we eat also depends on the medical conditions we have, I know people with nut intolerences and dairy intolerences, and people who are diabetic.

As a non medical person I think the aim is to strike a happy balance of food and the right amount and kind of exercise. This is where these forums come into their own as there are plenty of professional people and sensible ammeteurs with good advice and suggestions.

I will come back to this later and read it again as it is worth more than one reading!